Nice to hear from you in person! I'm deeply interested and influenced by your work. Cheers me up in this difficult time in our world... You probably know that birth, whirl and vortex are all from Palo/. Sanskrit vrtati turning. Birth becomes something like churned out by the whirl... Kate
I did not know this. It interests me a lot, not least because the proto-Indo-European words for wheel-related technology is one of the main means we have for understanding the dates by which certain branches split. “In the literature (e.g., Anthony 2007: 35–37), it is often stated that we can reconstruct five words of wheel and wagon termin- ology for Proto-Indo-European (PIE), viz. the words for ‘wheel’ (2×), ‘axle’, ‘thill’, and the verb ‘to convey in a vehicle’:
– PIE *kwekwlo- ‘wheel’ (Skt. cakrá-, YAv. caxra-, ON hvél, Gr. κύκλος; Toch. B kokale ‘wagon’);
– PIE *HrotHo- ‘wheel’ (Lat. rota, OIr. roth, OHG rad, Lith. rãtas ‘wheel’, rataĩ pl. ‘chariot’; Skt. rátha- and YAv. raθa- ‘chariot’);
– PIE *h2eḱs- ‘axle’ (Skt. ákṣa-, Gr. ἄξων, Lat. axis, OE eax);
So the idea that the vocabulary for birth (on the surface ‘Vrtati’ looks cognate with PIE *HrotHo- ‘wheel’ - I will look into this. Thank you for this lead) in Sanskrit is dependent on the idea of the wheel (which appears to date from around 3,500 BCE perhaps in the Caucuses though it was the Yamnaya who turned a Caucuses invention into a world-changing innovation) is of huge interest to me. Many thanks.
This is very interesting indeed! Thanks for all of this. That some of sanskrit was a diffusion from Proto European hadn't occurred to me until now. I also love your M-N exploration -- glancing at the name Emanuel ... god is with us.
I appreciate your interested response. It's clear how Hrot 'turns' into vrt. Your work also hints how wheels/rotation become philosophy.
The horse culture is easy to miss in India, so full of bullocks, but there's a 10-Horse Sacrifice ghat in the funeral city of Varanasi. Also a datable early invasion from the north. The wheel and chariot are rich symbols in Buddhist thought (familiar to me); for ex the inevitability of karma is said to be analogous to how the wheel of a cart follows the footstep of the bullock. Wheels, spokes, chariots/carts are illustrations for preaching... The 'empty' hub of the unborn is needed for the peripheral rim of 'manifestation' or the 'born' to keep turning... enumeration of eight spokes as critical supports to keep 'wheel of the dharma "turning, rotating'... .
This is all lots of fun and I look forward to what you may share ...
Kate
Deliberately turning a wheel in pali is called 'pavatana' and not sure how kweklo/cakka-chakra fits in but that's okay. Thanks! K
I LOVE wisdomlib.org It has saved me years of life to be able to find the same concept in so many different wisdom traditions’ texts. Great comments. Much to mull. Thank you 🙏🏾
I wish you'd offer a subscription discount for multiple subscriptions to your newsletters. I am a paid subscriber to Decoding Trolls and synergies with the others are fruitful, but the price climbs to an unaffordable level. Would you consider this?
👋🏾 Kate, Thank you for supporting my work. By “free” subscribing to Power of Mana and to Disinfolklore, you’re not missing anything from those publications - I am still in the audience-building phase. I shall do paid subscriber-only features in the future - but I shall make sure I invite all paid subscribers to any of my three publications to any paid subscriber feature of any of the other two. Thanks for prompting this idea. And you’re right: all three publications intertwine, like a triple helix. I want everyone who wants to read my content to read it. I will now look into doing what you suggest, which is a great idea - and if Substack doesn’t yet offer this possibility, I shall ask it to!🙏🏾
Nice to hear from you in person! I'm deeply interested and influenced by your work. Cheers me up in this difficult time in our world... You probably know that birth, whirl and vortex are all from Palo/. Sanskrit vrtati turning. Birth becomes something like churned out by the whirl... Kate
I did not know this. It interests me a lot, not least because the proto-Indo-European words for wheel-related technology is one of the main means we have for understanding the dates by which certain branches split. “In the literature (e.g., Anthony 2007: 35–37), it is often stated that we can reconstruct five words of wheel and wagon termin- ology for Proto-Indo-European (PIE), viz. the words for ‘wheel’ (2×), ‘axle’, ‘thill’, and the verb ‘to convey in a vehicle’:
– PIE *kwekwlo- ‘wheel’ (Skt. cakrá-, YAv. caxra-, ON hvél, Gr. κύκλος; Toch. B kokale ‘wagon’);
– PIE *HrotHo- ‘wheel’ (Lat. rota, OIr. roth, OHG rad, Lith. rãtas ‘wheel’, rataĩ pl. ‘chariot’; Skt. rátha- and YAv. raθa- ‘chariot’);
– PIE *h2eḱs- ‘axle’ (Skt. ákṣa-, Gr. ἄξων, Lat. axis, OE eax);
– PIE *h2eiHs- ‘pole, thill’ (Skt. īṣā́-, YAv. aēša, Hitt. ḫišša-, Sln.
oję̑ , Lith. íena; Gr. οἴαξ ‘handle’);
– PIE *ueǵh- ‘to convey in a vehicle’ (Skt. vah-, Av. vaz-, Gr.
(Pamph.) ϝεχέτω, Lat. uehō, Lith. vežù, OCS vezǫ; OHG wegan ‘to move’).”
So the idea that the vocabulary for birth (on the surface ‘Vrtati’ looks cognate with PIE *HrotHo- ‘wheel’ - I will look into this. Thank you for this lead) in Sanskrit is dependent on the idea of the wheel (which appears to date from around 3,500 BCE perhaps in the Caucuses though it was the Yamnaya who turned a Caucuses invention into a world-changing innovation) is of huge interest to me. Many thanks.
This is very interesting indeed! Thanks for all of this. That some of sanskrit was a diffusion from Proto European hadn't occurred to me until now. I also love your M-N exploration -- glancing at the name Emanuel ... god is with us.
I appreciate your interested response. It's clear how Hrot 'turns' into vrt. Your work also hints how wheels/rotation become philosophy.
The horse culture is easy to miss in India, so full of bullocks, but there's a 10-Horse Sacrifice ghat in the funeral city of Varanasi. Also a datable early invasion from the north. The wheel and chariot are rich symbols in Buddhist thought (familiar to me); for ex the inevitability of karma is said to be analogous to how the wheel of a cart follows the footstep of the bullock. Wheels, spokes, chariots/carts are illustrations for preaching... The 'empty' hub of the unborn is needed for the peripheral rim of 'manifestation' or the 'born' to keep turning... enumeration of eight spokes as critical supports to keep 'wheel of the dharma "turning, rotating'... .
This is all lots of fun and I look forward to what you may share ...
Kate
Deliberately turning a wheel in pali is called 'pavatana' and not sure how kweklo/cakka-chakra fits in but that's okay. Thanks! K
https://theprint.in/pageturner/excerpt/india-native-horses-disappeared-8000-bc-rig-veda-mentions-them-more-than-cow/586756/
Pa is colloquial but really pra, which is like "pro" and vattana relates, I think, to vritti, cycles or waves
https://www.wisdomlib.org/definition/pavattana
I LOVE wisdomlib.org It has saved me years of life to be able to find the same concept in so many different wisdom traditions’ texts. Great comments. Much to mull. Thank you 🙏🏾
I wish you'd offer a subscription discount for multiple subscriptions to your newsletters. I am a paid subscriber to Decoding Trolls and synergies with the others are fruitful, but the price climbs to an unaffordable level. Would you consider this?
👋🏾 Kate, Thank you for supporting my work. By “free” subscribing to Power of Mana and to Disinfolklore, you’re not missing anything from those publications - I am still in the audience-building phase. I shall do paid subscriber-only features in the future - but I shall make sure I invite all paid subscribers to any of my three publications to any paid subscriber feature of any of the other two. Thanks for prompting this idea. And you’re right: all three publications intertwine, like a triple helix. I want everyone who wants to read my content to read it. I will now look into doing what you suggest, which is a great idea - and if Substack doesn’t yet offer this possibility, I shall ask it to!🙏🏾